Shadowspectres part 2

Just read a very interesting thread on the spectres on dakkadakka.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/340775.page

One thing I would like to point out about the spectres is that they can move a minimum of 13" a turn, should they need to rapidly redeploy. Not to mention since they have jump packs they ignore terrain for the purposes of passing over it ergo they can take shortcuts during movement/assault phase by hopping over the edges of terrain. Pretty handy. Don't forget of course that jetpack infantry can move like normal troops according to the BRB so it's actually not important either way. Your boys can just walk the first 7" before getting a nifty 6" leap to cover more ground.

The general consensus remains the same by the way; this units' abilities are squandered in the heavy support slot. It directly competes with 5 other options up to and including the new Warp Hunter.

But having said that there's a ray of hope. One poster mentions giving the squad a JOTWW/Blood lance effect where you just draw a line to the set distance and then count out penetrations on a given basis. I have no experience with Tau but I thought their big railguns worked in a similar way (or was that just wishlisting?) in that you measure downwind at a target, then for every penetrating hit you take the next model behind it and roll off for damage against that, and so on... or otherwise functions in a way similar to vibrocannons in that all hits are resolved automatically and you merely roll for penetration?

If that's the case, a single squad of these guys could deepstrike then obliterate an entire stream of vehicles. I really do hope this change to a 'line of effect'  does occur because it would then make the unit a very serious contender for even a HS slot. A decent position would mean that a spectres squad outclasses the fireprism in a way that would turn a prism green with envy.

Shadow spectres, part 1

From here: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/eldar/206416-new-forgeworld-pre-order-shadow-spectes-warp-hunter.html

Post 1;

I somehow see myself using the haywire launcher for the exarch. Also, I think prism lance could do with being small blast, and ghost light being large blast. THEN they would be reaaaaally scary.

Post 2;

You're thinking in terms of a squad of 5 when a squad of 3 is just as effective, smaller ergo harder to hit, cheaper and only 1 less strength.

Personally since they're a permission-for-use unit I'll just ask my opponent if I can field them as a fast attack option. Simplify things for everyone. They really should not be in HS or elites. We need more core troops/FA desperately.

Post 3;

Highly depends.. bonus FDs have is multiple +2d6 shots.. negative is needing to get close enough to do that.
Spectres have range on their side, and are basically a multi-wound fireprism with an invulnerable save (fortune up lol... 75% survival armour save and 50% survival rate invl) but are kinda iffy deployment and a bit slow.

In thinking of their deployment.. the prevalence of things to now ignore the mishap table or have reduced scatter might be either a cure to the symptom of 5e (lots more terrain everywhere) or a sign of what 6e will hold (generally more reliable deployment options, lots more LOS blocking terrain).

Post 4;

No it doesn't matter. So long as ghostlight is used then the shot counts as a lance hit. So an exarch with special cannon +2 guys is a 36" s9Ap2 hit that that can reroll shots.

Now let's see.. that altogether costs 3x35+12+10+15=142. To get the same from a fireprism you'd need the fireprism as a base + a farseer who has guide. So that's 200 minimum, more for gadgets. Then you have the logisitical issues of having a farseer to babysit a fireprism, the fact that guide only rerolls the scatter dice, not the distance scattered (so if your shot scatters 7" and you go for reroll there's only a 33% chance it will successfully hit, or combined total 53% chance to direct hit) but also the fact that a fireprism can be destroyed outright by S7 hit. And it's a bigger target. And it won't get coversaves most of the time. And it has no invulnerable save.

As flickerfields are demonstrating a 5+ invulnerable is PRICELESS. With fortune rerolling that value goes up even higher.

Post 5;

I don't think you'd want to run a warphunter tandem to a nightspinner. I've got a thought surfacing here...

Ok so if you run a nightspinner you are intending to control movement. If you run a warphunter you are intending for maximum killing power over a given area or against a given target.
So really it's the tank you choose that determines how the spectres are used, or if they're even used at all.

Nightspinner: Perfect combo for spectres. Controlling movement of large-tanks and/or their contents is invaluable. The nightspinner exists to protect the spectres from assault squads. The nightspinner dual purposes by pinning transports in place to that spectres can get the side-armour shot.

In my mind spectres are like a fireprism for a given number of models. As I explained earlier in the thread, for 3 models you get a s9 lance that rerolls. You'd need another 60-90pts for the same from a prism.

Warphunter: The warphunter is the opposite to the nightspinner. Since you aren't gaining any control over your opponents movement your top priority becomes maximising the number of times you can fire that flamer template. For this I would run a warp hunter with either 2 squads of warwalkers, or 2 fireprisms. Multiple targets with similar threat thresholds means that your opponent will be sinking shots into units he can't really prioritise that well. Running a warphunter behind a pair of waveserpents would be pretty clever as well since LOS becomes an issue, warphunter cracks open the rhinos (or whatever) and then your waveserpents dump their hot gooey loads all over their contents.

That's the gist of it anyway.