Another extract from 4chan debates. Another example of the community being in the wrong. I've attempted to differentiate different speakers with different colours. My text will be black/white. Red as always is my in-editing stuff.
Here's a pure fun list for a minor tourney.
I already cleared with the TO that I can use my Knight Errants/Paladins as Knight Gallants as long as I fix some obvious melee weapons to the barrel of the guns.
Exalted Court OR Baronial Court
- Knight Lancer (430)
Warlord, Helm of the Nameless Warrior
- Knight Gallant (325)
- Knight Gallant (325)
- Knight Gallant (325)
- Knight Gallant (325)
1730/1750
"pure fun list
5 Knights
I don't think anyones gonna have fun playing against you with 5 knights you massive twat"
S5/S6 shots can score glancing or penetrating hits on most vehicles in 40k.
What game are you playing? Land of Landraiders? No seriously tell me how you arrived at this conclusion I'm super curious because I've managed to annhilate almost every opponent I've ever had. I normally win via tabling in turn 6 so I have a seriously hard time believing you really think s5/s6 won't kill your vehicles.
I'd like to interject myself here and remind everyone that with the old 4th edition codex the ONLY priority an eldar player had was to maximise the number of S6 shots they had. This meant copy-paste lists with the infamous 'DA tax' that allowed you take another waveserpent with TL scatter lasers and underslung shuriken cannon. While that's somewhat no longer relevant these old school lists would probably make modern players shit their pants what with bladestorm now being a thing and eldar thus having a very very strong 24"-36" S6 representation. Entire armies would evapourate under 200+ S6 hits a turn. At 2000 points.
That's great, but Knights are AV13/13/12, with 6 HP and a 4+ Invulnerable save on one facing each turn. Individually they're far from unmanagable, but unless you've had advance warning and know to pack your list with loads of anti-tank weapons, a whole army of the things can make for a very lopsided game.
are imperial knights the new boogey men or something?
If the army is pants-on-head OP that's not my problem because I didn't design them and nothing forces me to play with people using them. I don't list tailor and unless knights can't get 1h1k shot then you still only need 1 good hit to bring them down.
It's not commonly known but 40k does actually express a mostly balanced game environment. Win/loss ratios for armies sit mostly in the 40-55% range. If knights are OP today that could be an expression of players not knowing how to deal with them or it could be an expression of GW's corporate cynicism leaking through again.
Did they update all the codexes to validate renewals of their patents? Did they update them to make the game balanced? Does the update provide motivation to play more armies? Did the update scheme provide them a justification to play the oopsie card when they release cash grab shit like $800 for some special rules.
Being skeptical of GW's business decisions isn't scare mongering; it's sensible. By moving to a more frequent update schedule they directly impact their bottom line. It also allows them to fiddle with balance more frequently and thus cause spergs and netlisters to impulse buy more shit.
This. I used the word 'lopsided' for a reason.
Also, an army that's balanced to play against is not necessarily an army that's fun to play against. Playing against an army that effectively reduces your own force to ~20 models capable of dealing damage and a host of ablative wounds can leave a bad taste in some peoples' mouths, regardless of whether they win or lose.
And this has exactly what to do with my original proclamation that s5/s6 is a useful and underutilised source of damage in 40k?
With rending I have used reavers to kill landraiders and a baneblade. How much fun you get out of something is entirely subjective and I'm not interested in debating a point like that.
You can even kill knights with assault cannons if that's your flavour. There's a metric fuckload of options to use in killing anything with an armour score but people fixate on reliably doing it in 2 turns or less which is not what a balanced game of 40k is ever going to allow.
I would instead focus on disabling their ability to shoot via any special weapon that can affect them.
The most salient point being: don't play with people you don't have fun playing against.
If you play in tournaments then suck it up you get what you came for.
Scaremongering, browbeating and obstinate behavious are the hallmark of the bad community. This is just a small slice of the hypocrisy and ignorance that permeates the hobby. People treating things like codexes as the word of god, that finding GW releasing codexes which are overpowered as being examples of how dumb you are and how bad that game is is a really interesting if tiresome thing to see. How balanced and 'fun' would it be if every weapon you packed could kill a mini-titan? People cheesing with pure knight lists will eventually get their just desserts - noone will want to play them. It's social darwinism in effect here, if the knight codex is truly as game breaking as people suggest then eventually knights will kill off their own prey because they were too effective. GW shouldn't let that happen obviously because it's bad for their game but with rumours abound about them clamouring for quick cash who even knows.
The new admech models had probably been in design and engineering stages for years now, having done injection moulding shit before I can pretty much guarantee what we're seeing now is only the last 5% of GWs corporate venture in releasing this model range.
Wednesday, May 13, 2015
Before this thought completely leaves my mind:
Been watching some youtubes surrounding the old controversies about gamergate, anita sarkesian and zoey quinn.
I don't remember ever having much of an opinion on the topic aside from desiring more transparency from people claiming to be journalists and public speakers. So here we are 3 years later and watching these old videos just dredges up memories of how hysterical everything got.
Jim Sterling mentioned some interesting things in his video on the subject but one of them really stuck out, the idea that fence sitters in the debate are getting tarred with the same brush. Are we? Especially those of us who browse 4chan? I'm anonymous, noone has any idea who I am. How am I being personally affected by anything said on there or about it? I'm not. The views people are taking in the wider public from '4channers' is not representative of anybody really.
I'm not plugging my ears Jim. Never did. I just found your sweeping generalisations to be as credulous as the others' in their smear campaigns. Everybody involved is wrong. Fence sitting is a failure of either side of the debate to engage and convince the fence sitters to join their cause.
People posting horrible tweets on industry pundits is not to be taken as the literal view of everyone involved or of everyone from that same source, no matter who they are or where they claim to be from. But you knew this already didn't you? As a public speaker that's irresponsible. With later videos Jim has said that his views became more moderate and tolerant and I fully believe that to be true but did he ever take back some of the misinformed shit he said during the height of the debate? I guess I'll never know. The professional thing to do is not to make these ridiculous videos in the first place. Totalbiscuit braved the lions den to talk to 4chan people about it and walked away probably slightly less ambivalent about 4chan than he was before. If only more people would directly engage that community they would have seen all the threads posted non-stop calling to action for members of 4chan to NOT shitpost on other websites, peoples blogs and tweets and generally do not engage in any interaction with media socialites at all. If that had been catalogued would opinions of a website that I've been visiting since 2007 be different? I know 4chan culture better than a lot of people. It's a culture of mostly icy indifference. Anons are realists: the world is a terrible place, anon is an easy scapegoat and games journalists are mostly corrupt.
Noone at 4chan ever gave a shit about zoey quinn the human being, they cared about her manipulating facts and opinions through biased outlets in order to promote her career. Same as Anita Saarkesian who has been given a massive boost to her public speaking career through using this abuse she suffered (from whom I wonder, certainly not us, we didn't care enough) in order to profit.
And what about everyone else? Can I tar you with the same brush Jim? Was being topical a temporary boost for you too? Getting on board with the hype and controversy and making a 5 minute video during the zenith of the public spotlight did that benefit you? Like it did for kotaku and IGN and all those others?
I don't feel sorry for zoey quinn and I certainly won't defend her from abuse and harassment because I don't give a fuck about her. I'm not fence sitting, I'm staying staunchly neutral until some real facts are presented that we can then talk about. Shame for her though it seems the only facts we've had to discuss is how she slept with a bunch of guys and then had psychologically unstable idiots threaten her.
And that's what this all stems from isn't it. Idiots desiring their 15 minutes of fame by escalating every discussion and degrading it to the most base level as quickly as they can to keep the fire burning. These idiots exist on both sides of the debate. Instead of pragmatism we see constant emotional outbursts.
What about today? Today on 4chan Anita's theories have little weight, her credibility is in tatters after revelations that most of her source material is fabricated and any desire for debate to see her relevance restored is muted due to the ease with which people can debunk her arguments. Yes tropes against women had a valid angle but the execution was poor and the woman leading it all inadequate for the task. $10,000 to speak wasn't too shabby though.
Been watching some youtubes surrounding the old controversies about gamergate, anita sarkesian and zoey quinn.
I don't remember ever having much of an opinion on the topic aside from desiring more transparency from people claiming to be journalists and public speakers. So here we are 3 years later and watching these old videos just dredges up memories of how hysterical everything got.
Jim Sterling mentioned some interesting things in his video on the subject but one of them really stuck out, the idea that fence sitters in the debate are getting tarred with the same brush. Are we? Especially those of us who browse 4chan? I'm anonymous, noone has any idea who I am. How am I being personally affected by anything said on there or about it? I'm not. The views people are taking in the wider public from '4channers' is not representative of anybody really.
I'm not plugging my ears Jim. Never did. I just found your sweeping generalisations to be as credulous as the others' in their smear campaigns. Everybody involved is wrong. Fence sitting is a failure of either side of the debate to engage and convince the fence sitters to join their cause.
People posting horrible tweets on industry pundits is not to be taken as the literal view of everyone involved or of everyone from that same source, no matter who they are or where they claim to be from. But you knew this already didn't you? As a public speaker that's irresponsible. With later videos Jim has said that his views became more moderate and tolerant and I fully believe that to be true but did he ever take back some of the misinformed shit he said during the height of the debate? I guess I'll never know. The professional thing to do is not to make these ridiculous videos in the first place. Totalbiscuit braved the lions den to talk to 4chan people about it and walked away probably slightly less ambivalent about 4chan than he was before. If only more people would directly engage that community they would have seen all the threads posted non-stop calling to action for members of 4chan to NOT shitpost on other websites, peoples blogs and tweets and generally do not engage in any interaction with media socialites at all. If that had been catalogued would opinions of a website that I've been visiting since 2007 be different? I know 4chan culture better than a lot of people. It's a culture of mostly icy indifference. Anons are realists: the world is a terrible place, anon is an easy scapegoat and games journalists are mostly corrupt.
Noone at 4chan ever gave a shit about zoey quinn the human being, they cared about her manipulating facts and opinions through biased outlets in order to promote her career. Same as Anita Saarkesian who has been given a massive boost to her public speaking career through using this abuse she suffered (from whom I wonder, certainly not us, we didn't care enough) in order to profit.
And what about everyone else? Can I tar you with the same brush Jim? Was being topical a temporary boost for you too? Getting on board with the hype and controversy and making a 5 minute video during the zenith of the public spotlight did that benefit you? Like it did for kotaku and IGN and all those others?
I don't feel sorry for zoey quinn and I certainly won't defend her from abuse and harassment because I don't give a fuck about her. I'm not fence sitting, I'm staying staunchly neutral until some real facts are presented that we can then talk about. Shame for her though it seems the only facts we've had to discuss is how she slept with a bunch of guys and then had psychologically unstable idiots threaten her.
And that's what this all stems from isn't it. Idiots desiring their 15 minutes of fame by escalating every discussion and degrading it to the most base level as quickly as they can to keep the fire burning. These idiots exist on both sides of the debate. Instead of pragmatism we see constant emotional outbursts.
What about today? Today on 4chan Anita's theories have little weight, her credibility is in tatters after revelations that most of her source material is fabricated and any desire for debate to see her relevance restored is muted due to the ease with which people can debunk her arguments. Yes tropes against women had a valid angle but the execution was poor and the woman leading it all inadequate for the task. $10,000 to speak wasn't too shabby though.
Tuesday, May 12, 2015
The following is a conversation on the 3++ sites chatbox, as I tried to hunt down decent blogs to read and find out why so many of the old ones were discontinued, dropped or deleted.
This is going to come under the catagory for: some people are completely insane and need to get a smack in the head so the shit they call brains has another chance to settle.
mrbeniss: im going through all these old links i have to 40k blogs man there has been some attrition
mrbeniss: any good ones left?
captaingrizz: meh mostly just rumours or fanbois now
captaingrizz: you dont like 3 plain ole drones with a Standard?
GloriousDemise: nope
mrbeniss: That's kind of tragic really. I wonder what GW had to do to make so many people give up on them
GloriousDemise: GW hasnt been given up on
GloriousDemise: the problem is keeping up with the output is nigh impossible
GloriousDemise: there's something akin to 20+ new detachments across the board
GloriousDemise: there's formations outt he yingyang, supplemental books add more chaos
mrbeniss: the last game i played a few days ago we were using 4 codexes and the BRB
mrbeniss: thats a lot of shit to consider
captaingrizz: years with slow to no steady content or release schedule, then ramping it into overdrive and the only thing theyve stayed consistant about is the lack of communication with customers and players?
mrbeniss: so is the complaint about the backflip on their release schedule, a perceived balance problem or their PR stance? Because I don't think any of those things have ever stood in the way of internet personalities posting their opinions before
GloriousDemise: what do you mean backflip on release schedule?
GloriousDemise: they ran out of old books already
mrbeniss: going from nothing to full overdrive was the comment
GloriousDemise: theres never been complaints about it
GloriousDemise: most people are happy to get their books updated.
mrbeniss: a new edition and codex every 2-4 years is what i thought we'd all expect
GloriousDemise: are they happy with the updated rules in the book is a different issue
captaingrizz: theres tons of complaints about the current release schedule....
mrbeniss: im happy enough with the new rules, it broke the backs of certain playstyles completely and those playstyles were not healthy
GloriousDemise: most of those complaints are beyond retarded grizz
captaingrizz: lol. new eldar is healthy?
mrbeniss: i didnt say army, i said play style
captaingrizz: in your opinion GD
mrbeniss: as in MSU/parkinglot
mrbeniss: its still very strong in some situations
GloriousDemise: theres not a valid based opinion in regards to most of those complaints
mrbeniss: but not as common
PoundPuppie: shure because eerythig after it is going to be more amped people already crying admek going to be over powed because it has ignore cover
GloriousDemise: Actually havent seen a complaint that was actually valid
GloriousDemise: in regards to the release schedule.
captaingrizz: again, in your opinion
captaingrizz: just because you dont agree with it doesnt invalidate it
GloriousDemise: find a valid complaint then based on your opinion grizz.
GloriousDemise: its not about my opinion on it
captaingrizz: I assume you think the games the best it's ever been. lots would disagree
GloriousDemise: Whining because GW pumped out a new book after 1-2 years instead of 6 isn't a valid opinion.
PoundPuppie: they just need to keep realeaseing nobody s obligated to buy anything
GloriousDemise: I dont agree that its the best
GloriousDemise: I actually stated the opposite.
GloriousDemise: In regards to the rules INSIDE of the new releases.
GloriousDemise: But most of those people where bitching when theyre book was 6 years old and getting shit stomped
mrbeniss: I knew people using the 4th ed tyranids book instead of the 6th back in those days. you play the game you want to play
mrbeniss: yeah i havent touched my eldar since 5th ed because of the lingering effects of the codex i had
captaingrizz: you cant just pick a codex from another edition and use it
PoundPuppie: thats fine i could care less what people play its about options
GloriousDemise: having an issues with the rules should not count valid against the release schedule
mrbeniss: and then they released an update that was almost a copy-paste of the original book and i gave up completely
captaingrizz: i dont care about the release schedule, i care about the lack of communication with players
GloriousDemise: at the rate theyre pumping out theres no way they could
captaingrizz: are you complaining about 6th ed eldar?
GloriousDemise: unless they hire a staff just for that.
mrbeniss: grizz if i allow it then thats what happens, and they suffer the effects of having special rules and stuff that might no longer exist
PoundPuppie: so you wan t people to play old shit and the people who have new shit are like fuck that is what your say mrben
mrbeniss: i got the 6th ed eldar book on my bookshelf, it didn't particularly change what i felt was bad in the old book and what i had in my army so i dropped it. haven't opened it since 2013?
captaingrizz: heh
captaingrizz: thats the first complaint ive heard about someone not wanting to play 6th ed eldar...
GloriousDemise: well he does have a valid point
PoundPuppie: 6th edition eldar book was good
GloriousDemise: 6th didnt fix the previous eldar book
GloriousDemise: it just broke serpents.
mrbeniss: wut. where did i say i force people to play old armies? i said they're free to do so and i would allow it
captaingrizz: hey theres a formation with the wraith knight right
PoundPuppie: who said gw needs to refix every codex they redo they dont
PoundPuppie: in fact them releasing it is better then them not supporting it at all and removeing the army
mrbeniss: and noone is disagreeing with you? that's called product support?
PoundPuppie: yup
PoundPuppie: capt there is
captaingrizz: what did i disagree with
PoundPuppie: as a matter of fact there are 2 formations
captaingrizz: i see wraith host
captaingrizz: thats it]
PoundPuppie: and wraith construct
GloriousDemise: wraith construct is a formation inside of a formation
GloriousDemise: but there is also the stand alone formation wraith host
captaingrizz: isnt that in their dichurion
GloriousDemise: But i think that one is forced 3 units of WG
captaingrizz: yeah
PoundPuppie: exaactly capt asked if there is a wraith formation i said yes there are 2
GloriousDemise: yeah the Decurion has the Wraith Construct.
captaingrizz: meh, might be cheaper than the mandatory shit form the dichurion
GloriousDemise: yes and no
GloriousDemise: the jetbike formation that is required is still pretty cheap
PoundPuppie: if you just want a writh knight in your eldar army you just take a writh construct with one the mandatory hosts
GloriousDemise: but you still cant really spam the wraith construct formation in there.
PoundPuppie: shure you can you can play 3 in an army easy
GloriousDemise: thats not really spamming but yeah
GloriousDemise: thats not a real change from the old book
PoundPuppie: you can play 6
GloriousDemise: that is possible but handicaps the army
GloriousDemise: and basically rocks papper scissors you lose lol
Shadowmancer1: I need to get another couple of Wraithguard boxes
Shadowmancer1: and a Wraithlord
PoundPuppie: im just saying you can can spam if you want i mean its all about objectives and your not gettting them off one unless your brining it to them
Shadowmancer1: then I can run that formation
captaingrizz: 70+160+160+160+120+295 for WK formation
PoundPuppie: for what formantion
PoundPuppie: capt
captaingrizz: i dont have any eldar, im just thinking about taking a few WK as cheap as possible
captaingrizz: wraithhost
PoundPuppie: if you do the bikes you can have like 3 51 point units 1 50 point units farsseer and a warlock
PoundPuppie: and all the wk you wat
mrbenis: this conversation it hilarious, it went from a discussion about how GW are upsetting their customers to how to most effectively spam eldar formations. another great segue
captaingrizz: you asked why so many people quit and were upset
captaingrizz: got nothing to do with this conversation
mrbenis: oh my god man I'm done. peace out
Can anyone see why I get sick of these people? Their myopic 2-dimensional view of life boils down to bitching about shit they don't understand and then whipping the white tiger over whatever FOTM shit is in fashion. They flew completely offtopic at the drop of a hat due to what I can only see as an inability to directly address their problems. These people actually exist in real life and it saddens me to see them able to congregate so easily. This is why anonymity is important on the internet people, to break down a congregation of morons ability to form.
This is going to come under the catagory for: some people are completely insane and need to get a smack in the head so the shit they call brains has another chance to settle.
mrbeniss: im going through all these old links i have to 40k blogs man there has been some attrition
mrbeniss: any good ones left?
captaingrizz: meh mostly just rumours or fanbois now
captaingrizz: you dont like 3 plain ole drones with a Standard?
GloriousDemise: nope
mrbeniss: That's kind of tragic really. I wonder what GW had to do to make so many people give up on them
GloriousDemise: GW hasnt been given up on
GloriousDemise: the problem is keeping up with the output is nigh impossible
GloriousDemise: there's something akin to 20+ new detachments across the board
GloriousDemise: there's formations outt he yingyang, supplemental books add more chaos
mrbeniss: the last game i played a few days ago we were using 4 codexes and the BRB
mrbeniss: thats a lot of shit to consider
captaingrizz: years with slow to no steady content or release schedule, then ramping it into overdrive and the only thing theyve stayed consistant about is the lack of communication with customers and players?
mrbeniss: so is the complaint about the backflip on their release schedule, a perceived balance problem or their PR stance? Because I don't think any of those things have ever stood in the way of internet personalities posting their opinions before
GloriousDemise: what do you mean backflip on release schedule?
GloriousDemise: they ran out of old books already
mrbeniss: going from nothing to full overdrive was the comment
GloriousDemise: theres never been complaints about it
GloriousDemise: most people are happy to get their books updated.
mrbeniss: a new edition and codex every 2-4 years is what i thought we'd all expect
GloriousDemise: are they happy with the updated rules in the book is a different issue
captaingrizz: theres tons of complaints about the current release schedule....
mrbeniss: im happy enough with the new rules, it broke the backs of certain playstyles completely and those playstyles were not healthy
GloriousDemise: most of those complaints are beyond retarded grizz
captaingrizz: lol. new eldar is healthy?
mrbeniss: i didnt say army, i said play style
captaingrizz: in your opinion GD
mrbeniss: as in MSU/parkinglot
mrbeniss: its still very strong in some situations
GloriousDemise: theres not a valid based opinion in regards to most of those complaints
mrbeniss: but not as common
PoundPuppie: shure because eerythig after it is going to be more amped people already crying admek going to be over powed because it has ignore cover
GloriousDemise: Actually havent seen a complaint that was actually valid
GloriousDemise: in regards to the release schedule.
captaingrizz: again, in your opinion
captaingrizz: just because you dont agree with it doesnt invalidate it
GloriousDemise: find a valid complaint then based on your opinion grizz.
GloriousDemise: its not about my opinion on it
captaingrizz: I assume you think the games the best it's ever been. lots would disagree
GloriousDemise: Whining because GW pumped out a new book after 1-2 years instead of 6 isn't a valid opinion.
PoundPuppie: they just need to keep realeaseing nobody s obligated to buy anything
GloriousDemise: I dont agree that its the best
GloriousDemise: I actually stated the opposite.
GloriousDemise: In regards to the rules INSIDE of the new releases.
GloriousDemise: But most of those people where bitching when theyre book was 6 years old and getting shit stomped
mrbeniss: I knew people using the 4th ed tyranids book instead of the 6th back in those days. you play the game you want to play
mrbeniss: yeah i havent touched my eldar since 5th ed because of the lingering effects of the codex i had
captaingrizz: you cant just pick a codex from another edition and use it
PoundPuppie: thats fine i could care less what people play its about options
GloriousDemise: having an issues with the rules should not count valid against the release schedule
mrbeniss: and then they released an update that was almost a copy-paste of the original book and i gave up completely
captaingrizz: i dont care about the release schedule, i care about the lack of communication with players
GloriousDemise: at the rate theyre pumping out theres no way they could
captaingrizz: are you complaining about 6th ed eldar?
GloriousDemise: unless they hire a staff just for that.
mrbeniss: grizz if i allow it then thats what happens, and they suffer the effects of having special rules and stuff that might no longer exist
PoundPuppie: so you wan t people to play old shit and the people who have new shit are like fuck that is what your say mrben
mrbeniss: i got the 6th ed eldar book on my bookshelf, it didn't particularly change what i felt was bad in the old book and what i had in my army so i dropped it. haven't opened it since 2013?
captaingrizz: heh
captaingrizz: thats the first complaint ive heard about someone not wanting to play 6th ed eldar...
GloriousDemise: well he does have a valid point
PoundPuppie: 6th edition eldar book was good
GloriousDemise: 6th didnt fix the previous eldar book
GloriousDemise: it just broke serpents.
mrbeniss: wut. where did i say i force people to play old armies? i said they're free to do so and i would allow it
captaingrizz: hey theres a formation with the wraith knight right
PoundPuppie: who said gw needs to refix every codex they redo they dont
PoundPuppie: in fact them releasing it is better then them not supporting it at all and removeing the army
mrbeniss: and noone is disagreeing with you? that's called product support?
PoundPuppie: yup
PoundPuppie: capt there is
captaingrizz: what did i disagree with
PoundPuppie: as a matter of fact there are 2 formations
captaingrizz: i see wraith host
captaingrizz: thats it]
PoundPuppie: and wraith construct
GloriousDemise: wraith construct is a formation inside of a formation
GloriousDemise: but there is also the stand alone formation wraith host
captaingrizz: isnt that in their dichurion
GloriousDemise: But i think that one is forced 3 units of WG
captaingrizz: yeah
PoundPuppie: exaactly capt asked if there is a wraith formation i said yes there are 2
GloriousDemise: yeah the Decurion has the Wraith Construct.
captaingrizz: meh, might be cheaper than the mandatory shit form the dichurion
GloriousDemise: yes and no
GloriousDemise: the jetbike formation that is required is still pretty cheap
PoundPuppie: if you just want a writh knight in your eldar army you just take a writh construct with one the mandatory hosts
GloriousDemise: but you still cant really spam the wraith construct formation in there.
PoundPuppie: shure you can you can play 3 in an army easy
GloriousDemise: thats not really spamming but yeah
GloriousDemise: thats not a real change from the old book
PoundPuppie: you can play 6
GloriousDemise: that is possible but handicaps the army
GloriousDemise: and basically rocks papper scissors you lose lol
Shadowmancer1: I need to get another couple of Wraithguard boxes
Shadowmancer1: and a Wraithlord
PoundPuppie: im just saying you can can spam if you want i mean its all about objectives and your not gettting them off one unless your brining it to them
Shadowmancer1: then I can run that formation
captaingrizz: 70+160+160+160+120+295 for WK formation
PoundPuppie: for what formantion
PoundPuppie: capt
captaingrizz: i dont have any eldar, im just thinking about taking a few WK as cheap as possible
captaingrizz: wraithhost
PoundPuppie: if you do the bikes you can have like 3 51 point units 1 50 point units farsseer and a warlock
PoundPuppie: and all the wk you wat
mrbenis: this conversation it hilarious, it went from a discussion about how GW are upsetting their customers to how to most effectively spam eldar formations. another great segue
captaingrizz: you asked why so many people quit and were upset
captaingrizz: got nothing to do with this conversation
mrbenis: oh my god man I'm done. peace out
Can anyone see why I get sick of these people? Their myopic 2-dimensional view of life boils down to bitching about shit they don't understand and then whipping the white tiger over whatever FOTM shit is in fashion. They flew completely offtopic at the drop of a hat due to what I can only see as an inability to directly address their problems. These people actually exist in real life and it saddens me to see them able to congregate so easily. This is why anonymity is important on the internet people, to break down a congregation of morons ability to form.
Monday, May 11, 2015
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12210-2000pt-de-harlequins-vs-ge-ig
Recent battlereport for a game I did. I play only about 4 games a year now due to a lack of motivation and my distaste for the average 40k player.
Since this blog is unlikely to be viewed by *anyone* I feel confidant enough exposing here a few things.
Well to begin with lets do us a SinCounter of things that went wrong here:
no GK/IG army list.
Didn't confirm him rolling for his powers
he selected the mission without roll off.
preselected his table edge and set up.
Walking off during the game at least 10 times.
Suspicious use of rules lawyering for advantage.
Did you notice that terrain density? huh?
It's funny how some people start off fast and loose with the rules but as the game drags on and the margins of error get tighter and tighter they start puckering up and looking for advantages. The competitive spirit of this guy lead him to several rules debates with store staff and the local rules lawyer. And he was wrong every time.
When I saw at the very beginning before we even got started how he was going about it I decided to take a few liberties myself. Does that make me a better player or person than him? Sure it does. Because I was 0.2% of my army list over in points and rolled for fleet incorrectly like one time. In other words if I must be labeled a cheater it was pretty benign compared to him.
I played him psychologically, talking up how good the saves on my harlequins were and how powerful their attacks were and shit, fully knowing that by infiltrating them so close to him they were just going to get pumped full of psybolts until they disappeared. I wonder if he ever realised how much energy he wasted trying to kill them seeing as I never even rolled to shoot with any of them and stopped trying to use psyker powers with my shadowseer after turn 2. The deathjester and shadowseer literally did nothing but roll invulnerable/cover saves for 4 turns until they died. I played on my opponents target priority, reminding him that you can't consider weapons to be part of the model you're shooting for Line Of Sight purposes so what was his response? He moved around until he could. Even if it meant 1". Even if it meant that his fucking librarian couldn't see any part of my shadowseer but magically was shooting witchfire attacks at her anyway because "Fuck Logic(tm) I will cheat in order to achieve my objectives". Since he was such a good sport about ignoring the rules in order to win I let him as he was doing a really bad job at it anyway.
I think it's the money people pour in to 40k that makes them so crazy about it. No that can't be it. I'd go for an even more base assumption: these kinds of people are so hungry to win they will do it if they can get away with it.
He never went as far as making shit up on the spot or model swapping which is where I'd have been calling him WAAC and to be blacklisted, but it is very telling that when someone you're playing against can't even do the simple courtesy of telling you what's in his army list and that by the end of the game the satisfaction of beating this guy anyway is eroded and drained away that you might be playing either a bad game or are just associating with bad people.
And it's the people. It has for the very most part always been the people. And game stores are the worst offenders for it because they principally will not deny access to games for players who have proven themselves unable to handle the responsibility of not breaking the rules. Socially awkward little kids who feel the need to stroke their tyranid models and put off their substantially older opponents like they're being a psyops master. It's not. You're not. You're just being a creepy little anti-social shit and your incessant jokes about stupid things is only going to result in noone wanting to play with you.
I really do miss living in Auckland, the 40k social club in ellerslie was a collection of 20-30 18+'s who joined up once a week to play some dice in a private setting with a bar and restaurant. Perth doesn't really seem to have a dedicated club space that I know of and that's a damned shame because this game is so, SO much better once all the retards and their bullshit is removed from the equation.
Recent battlereport for a game I did. I play only about 4 games a year now due to a lack of motivation and my distaste for the average 40k player.
Since this blog is unlikely to be viewed by *anyone* I feel confidant enough exposing here a few things.
Well to begin with lets do us a SinCounter of things that went wrong here:
no GK/IG army list.
Didn't confirm him rolling for his powers
he selected the mission without roll off.
preselected his table edge and set up.
Walking off during the game at least 10 times.
Suspicious use of rules lawyering for advantage.
Did you notice that terrain density? huh?
It's funny how some people start off fast and loose with the rules but as the game drags on and the margins of error get tighter and tighter they start puckering up and looking for advantages. The competitive spirit of this guy lead him to several rules debates with store staff and the local rules lawyer. And he was wrong every time.
When I saw at the very beginning before we even got started how he was going about it I decided to take a few liberties myself. Does that make me a better player or person than him? Sure it does. Because I was 0.2% of my army list over in points and rolled for fleet incorrectly like one time. In other words if I must be labeled a cheater it was pretty benign compared to him.
I played him psychologically, talking up how good the saves on my harlequins were and how powerful their attacks were and shit, fully knowing that by infiltrating them so close to him they were just going to get pumped full of psybolts until they disappeared. I wonder if he ever realised how much energy he wasted trying to kill them seeing as I never even rolled to shoot with any of them and stopped trying to use psyker powers with my shadowseer after turn 2. The deathjester and shadowseer literally did nothing but roll invulnerable/cover saves for 4 turns until they died. I played on my opponents target priority, reminding him that you can't consider weapons to be part of the model you're shooting for Line Of Sight purposes so what was his response? He moved around until he could. Even if it meant 1". Even if it meant that his fucking librarian couldn't see any part of my shadowseer but magically was shooting witchfire attacks at her anyway because "Fuck Logic(tm) I will cheat in order to achieve my objectives". Since he was such a good sport about ignoring the rules in order to win I let him as he was doing a really bad job at it anyway.
I think it's the money people pour in to 40k that makes them so crazy about it. No that can't be it. I'd go for an even more base assumption: these kinds of people are so hungry to win they will do it if they can get away with it.
He never went as far as making shit up on the spot or model swapping which is where I'd have been calling him WAAC and to be blacklisted, but it is very telling that when someone you're playing against can't even do the simple courtesy of telling you what's in his army list and that by the end of the game the satisfaction of beating this guy anyway is eroded and drained away that you might be playing either a bad game or are just associating with bad people.
And it's the people. It has for the very most part always been the people. And game stores are the worst offenders for it because they principally will not deny access to games for players who have proven themselves unable to handle the responsibility of not breaking the rules. Socially awkward little kids who feel the need to stroke their tyranid models and put off their substantially older opponents like they're being a psyops master. It's not. You're not. You're just being a creepy little anti-social shit and your incessant jokes about stupid things is only going to result in noone wanting to play with you.
I really do miss living in Auckland, the 40k social club in ellerslie was a collection of 20-30 18+'s who joined up once a week to play some dice in a private setting with a bar and restaurant. Perth doesn't really seem to have a dedicated club space that I know of and that's a damned shame because this game is so, SO much better once all the retards and their bullshit is removed from the equation.
This is going to be a lightning fast note on my #1 complaint with 40k: the community.
For reference, the webcomic about space-elves Outsider has more forum activity than *most* 40k blogs and forums. We're talking about a webcomic that has produced 103 pages in almost 14 years.
What makes the difference? Go take a look and draw your own conclusions.
The community for 40k is shit and has been actively getting worse and worse, evidenced by blog writers and their substituant communities bailing out one after the other. More to come.
For reference, the webcomic about space-elves Outsider has more forum activity than *most* 40k blogs and forums. We're talking about a webcomic that has produced 103 pages in almost 14 years.
What makes the difference? Go take a look and draw your own conclusions.
The community for 40k is shit and has been actively getting worse and worse, evidenced by blog writers and their substituant communities bailing out one after the other. More to come.
Sunday, May 10, 2015
Reading through some of my own older posts after more or less forgetting about 40k as a hobby for 4 years. What a trip. I was right sometimes and wrong sometimes as well. I wonder if this is how every commentator feels when they write their memoires? Except we aren't done yet. Oh no.
I really want to write a big post about the problems with 40k. I want to write this post because the game is a lot of fun but has it's fair share of issues and I would summarise them as thus:
1. Community. Head and shoulders above all other problems this game has is the community. 4 years ago I wrote about being excited to be in a new country and experience a new community to play in but instead it slowly sapped my enthusiasm. The community itself is this games own worst enemy and this topic is totally worth its own complete blog post.
2. The company. GW gets eaten alive everywhere it is mentioned, but to date YTTH still did it best pointing out the arrogance and hubris of the management in this business. His own status as an (ex-)investor gave him a particular degree of insight in to a company he bought many thousands of dollars of products from and these managers in the end discredited themselves and disgusted Stelek so much he sold off his shares and threw in the towel on the company completely. This is a very damning thing for GW, a popular internet personality refusing to be browbeaten by threats and then pointing out a total loss of confidence in your sustainability does say many bad things.
3. The models. The game does have some of the best models on the market. Their production quality is very high and it's obvious great lengths were crossed to make them among the very best given the subject matter. Unfortunately they're very small and kind of unimpressive to outsiders. People walk in to the store, see what are essentially fancy chess pieces and then walk back out. This is neither a commendation nor a condemnation of the artistic direction for the pieces, I just feel the models themselves are kind of sold short by being flimsy and hiding the quality of their production via the extremely small scale. Objects observed from a distance lose more detail than lower quality ones viewed slightly too close.
4. The art direction. I bring all non-physical game products together under this banner. I expressed elsewhere disappointment at certain things in this fictional setting and I think they bare repeating here. 40k is numbing. It has too much gore and violence happening far too much. Picking up the harlequin codex and expecting to read some extracts of ancient (2nd and 3rd edition) material to provide some background and context to this army instead produced a non-stop series of "we found bad guys doing this, so we bust outta nowhere and wrecked their shit in ways that make us practically indistinguishable from the settings villains". The harlequins faction went from being silent achievers and a society of concerned patrons of goodness to be being another faux-noble collection of disgusting and sadistic sociopaths. This is the art direction of 40k in a nutshell. Everything unique and beautiful gets boiled down in to a 2 dimenional or even 1 dimensional parody of its own earlier incarnation. Harlequins serve a god who transmits his message to those who matter through the medium of art and dance. They work to limit the power of chaos and cut the chords slaanesh has over the eldar race. In modern interpretations they do this through practically invoking demonic energies themselves and committing heinous violence while driving divisive wedges between members of their own race and own faction. The same theme now runs with CraftWorldEldar too. They've gotten more violent, more accessible and suffer more infighting than before. They're no longer surreal astral ancients shrouded in legacy and mysticism, they've been stylistically degraded in to homocidal lunatics engaging in dangerously irresponsible practices justified by weak allusions to higher authority (their gods are dead). See: wraithknights, wraithguard, Codex Iyandan, hemlock wraithfighters as just some basic examples. See also Necrons as the worst offender. They're unrecognisable in their current fluff direction.
5. Non-tabletop incarnations. This is the last pain point of 40k and GW. The lack of quality control on the digital versions of their games is inexcusable from the damage to their reputation it engenders. Giving out their licence to seemingly anyone no matter how disingenuous they are does not foster good PR. Dawn of War 1 still gets mods and mod updates. If GW had the brainpower to say that they want a game roughly analogous to their main product line as a vessel by which to sell more plastic crack then another *decent* DOW is the answer. We've been calling for it but haven't seen anything. The stupid lane defence model of DOW2 should never be repeated either and certainly not streamlined any further as it degraded the experience that a strategy game should be offering. People aren't scared of complexity, the kind of player who is scared of complexity in their strategy game sure as fuck isn't going to be a client of the tabletop game (with its 200 page rulebook). If you want players to buy your products with both hands then try putting food in both hands instead of leaving one empty or callously filling it with sand and broken glass.
I really want to write a big post about the problems with 40k. I want to write this post because the game is a lot of fun but has it's fair share of issues and I would summarise them as thus:
1. Community. Head and shoulders above all other problems this game has is the community. 4 years ago I wrote about being excited to be in a new country and experience a new community to play in but instead it slowly sapped my enthusiasm. The community itself is this games own worst enemy and this topic is totally worth its own complete blog post.
2. The company. GW gets eaten alive everywhere it is mentioned, but to date YTTH still did it best pointing out the arrogance and hubris of the management in this business. His own status as an (ex-)investor gave him a particular degree of insight in to a company he bought many thousands of dollars of products from and these managers in the end discredited themselves and disgusted Stelek so much he sold off his shares and threw in the towel on the company completely. This is a very damning thing for GW, a popular internet personality refusing to be browbeaten by threats and then pointing out a total loss of confidence in your sustainability does say many bad things.
3. The models. The game does have some of the best models on the market. Their production quality is very high and it's obvious great lengths were crossed to make them among the very best given the subject matter. Unfortunately they're very small and kind of unimpressive to outsiders. People walk in to the store, see what are essentially fancy chess pieces and then walk back out. This is neither a commendation nor a condemnation of the artistic direction for the pieces, I just feel the models themselves are kind of sold short by being flimsy and hiding the quality of their production via the extremely small scale. Objects observed from a distance lose more detail than lower quality ones viewed slightly too close.
4. The art direction. I bring all non-physical game products together under this banner. I expressed elsewhere disappointment at certain things in this fictional setting and I think they bare repeating here. 40k is numbing. It has too much gore and violence happening far too much. Picking up the harlequin codex and expecting to read some extracts of ancient (2nd and 3rd edition) material to provide some background and context to this army instead produced a non-stop series of "we found bad guys doing this, so we bust outta nowhere and wrecked their shit in ways that make us practically indistinguishable from the settings villains". The harlequins faction went from being silent achievers and a society of concerned patrons of goodness to be being another faux-noble collection of disgusting and sadistic sociopaths. This is the art direction of 40k in a nutshell. Everything unique and beautiful gets boiled down in to a 2 dimenional or even 1 dimensional parody of its own earlier incarnation. Harlequins serve a god who transmits his message to those who matter through the medium of art and dance. They work to limit the power of chaos and cut the chords slaanesh has over the eldar race. In modern interpretations they do this through practically invoking demonic energies themselves and committing heinous violence while driving divisive wedges between members of their own race and own faction. The same theme now runs with CraftWorldEldar too. They've gotten more violent, more accessible and suffer more infighting than before. They're no longer surreal astral ancients shrouded in legacy and mysticism, they've been stylistically degraded in to homocidal lunatics engaging in dangerously irresponsible practices justified by weak allusions to higher authority (their gods are dead). See: wraithknights, wraithguard, Codex Iyandan, hemlock wraithfighters as just some basic examples. See also Necrons as the worst offender. They're unrecognisable in their current fluff direction.
5. Non-tabletop incarnations. This is the last pain point of 40k and GW. The lack of quality control on the digital versions of their games is inexcusable from the damage to their reputation it engenders. Giving out their licence to seemingly anyone no matter how disingenuous they are does not foster good PR. Dawn of War 1 still gets mods and mod updates. If GW had the brainpower to say that they want a game roughly analogous to their main product line as a vessel by which to sell more plastic crack then another *decent* DOW is the answer. We've been calling for it but haven't seen anything. The stupid lane defence model of DOW2 should never be repeated either and certainly not streamlined any further as it degraded the experience that a strategy game should be offering. People aren't scared of complexity, the kind of player who is scared of complexity in their strategy game sure as fuck isn't going to be a client of the tabletop game (with its 200 page rulebook). If you want players to buy your products with both hands then try putting food in both hands instead of leaving one empty or callously filling it with sand and broken glass.
The following out-takes are from YTTH, the chatango application in which I posit counter-cultural ideas to that famously jaded and misanthropic website. I should also point out that the website has basically lost all cultural relevance since it stopped updating but it is nice to read its archives sometimes as things Stelek said are still really clever, it's just a shame that his website did eventually attract a large number of internet heroes with opinions bigger than their sense of presence.
LocalOrk: I
doubt GW give a toss about garage gaming, frankly. It doesn't generate
as much profits as "oh, I NEED to buy 2-3k army of newest XXX to kick
ass in tournament".
anon3844: No,
what's idiotic is the expectation that people drop triple-digit sums on
rulebooks and are then expected to rewrite them in order for them to
work properly.
mrbenis: @randumbwon: randumbwon: i cannot respond to such an obtuse remark, you should research the forum you're speaking in before making inane comments
Sorry bro but I don't subscribe to the echo chamber you crave to live in. I've been here for years too which indeed you would know if you searched for my name in it. GFY
mrbenis: I've just gone back and re-read these two GREAT articles:
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2014/07/games-workshops-annual-flub-2014/
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2014/01/open-letter-to-the-community/
While I don't pay a lot of attention to what happens outside of Australia the general consensus is following trend and we can see that over all there are less unique individuals by % in my LGS each time I go in (roughly once a month). Everyone's a regular only by virtue of there being noone new.
GW desperately NEEDS another Dawn Of War to get people hyped again. Their codexes are nice but massively overpriced. Their game is still most commonly played on a 6x4 table but this is just too small for an average size army. The rulebook itself doesn't encourage breaking the mould (despite saying it itself imposes no limitations on physical setting) and the stores only provide 1 experience. There's no excitement left in 40k because the animal is changing but the scenery is the same. It's easy to switch off and not even pay attention to something new.
One final point is the 18,000 visitors quote from one of the articles. Yes. Before other forms of home entertainment really took off. PC gaming only really became a big thing in 1997 but consoles were around for much longer and playing on consoles is a lot cheaper than GW product in a pound-for-pound kind of way.
elotar: You know, that the rules are shit, but you are still buying them for a hundreds of dollars and you think GW is idiot in this story?
mrbenis: @rickmachine
I could produce the platitude about not buying what you don't like but
instead let me offer you something even more cynical: since GW has a
stated aim to prioritise large sum purchases from new customers, let
these doe-eyed individuals take the fall and instead buy their
pre-assembled models for 50% off on ebay (I've seen up to 80% off) when
they drop out of the bottom because of lack of product support. The lack
of reasons to use the models once they're deliberately obsoleted and
the toxic community that has developed for this game constantly
undermining and draining any desire to interact with other players
because they're borderline sociopathic. Just like the kind of people who
cynically wait for others to get stung by exploitative business
practices and then buy up their underpriced second hand goods.
If you're like me and ever done "pick up" purchases you can sort of vicariously drink in the emotional baggage every model carries, especially the ones assembled and painted by late-teens and perfectly conforming to the 'studio paint job' that the company wants you to comply with. Because originality is dead in 40k and everything you do is just advertising for the game.
And I stand by that sentiment. Originality in 40k is dead. The theme and iconography of the game is 25 years old, most of it is unchanged. In adding new armies the overwhelming negativity of its jaded and neglected customer base bubbles up to the surface with people complaining in private commodes about how expensive everything new is, how it doesn't cater to their desired direction for the game and how it negatively impacts their ability to play or even enjoy the game (and from the looks of things some of them have in fact NOT been playing for years) and that the company finally producing new models for a range people have been desperately wanting for years is met with cynicism and doubt. Yes the models are expensive - but if you're complaining about prices in a game with toy soldiers you have some seriously messed up priorities. Video gaming is far worse, Battlefield 4 famously had one edition of it selling for $120 and that included vapourware shit like the nebulous term "DLC", paying up front for a product sight unseen and not even know what the fuck that DLC will even be (there's no guarantee you won't get strictly cosmetic horse armour tier garbage or even worse: gamebreaking exclusive items for multiplayer that explicitly punishes people who don't blindly invest in pre-orders).
I do tend to use a lot of strong language in my communications with the other human beings on the internet but this is because of their desensitivity to anything that doesn't offend them. Engaging in a higher level of dialogue is impossible with some people because they're incapable of distinguishing between critical commentary and insults. See the above black text.
Originality and promoting personal flourishes in the interpretations of 40k's universe and artistic direction is one of the pillars that made GWs original game so popular. Allowing and encouraging everyone to introduce their unique touches to each unit design is what essentially helps to distinguish their product from more interactive media like video games because video games inherently cannot allow very much deviation from the lead designers doctrine. Case in point: when I was last in a GW store to buy my solitaire model, I was encouraged to look at and use the painting scheme that the UK studio used for its model. This happened to be a completely independant book from the codex itself and covered things like officially endorsed colour schemes and markings and designs. The distaste for this product didn't hit me fully until I got home however because I wasn't quite clicking with the idea that GW either has so little faith in the general customers imagination or that they pessimistically don't want their customers to diverge from their artistic direction for "reasons". The optimist might just point out that they want to provide some inspiration for you, but I'd say thats ridiculous when talking about an 80 page book you no doubt have to buy for some seriously big $$$. Everything about modern GW seems to centre around controlling their IP and eroding any sense of artistic adventure within their community because they've openly stated that they feel their interpretation of the universe is the only valid one, nevermind the way that this state fluxes when they have a change of staff.
randumbwon: i can't wait til 40k gets bought out by mattel
mrbenis: Why on earth would you want that?
mrbenis: I
get that people are bitter about 40k but it began as a game played by
friends in the garage and that's where it is returning. Hosting games in
shops inevitably gets troublesome with idiots turning up.
randumbwon: i cannot respond to such an obtuse remark, you should research the forum you're speaking in before making inane comments
thatmg7: GW
business strat, ignore audience/customers, make lumps of plastics buy
me now choices, half costs with new plastics, double the cost of units
due to price increases/model number reductions. Fire any staff that
shows any sign of game design knowledge. then fire the other people who
just did nothing wrong, then wonder why the gravy train isn't working,
however keep doing the same thing because ignorance is the best answer,
an pray dumb investors give us money
thatmg7: because dividends is the only goal.
elotar: I think generally the main idiots are not GW, but players, who totally can't organize and make competitive rules.
mrbenis: @randumbwon: randumbwon: i cannot respond to such an obtuse remark, you should research the forum you're speaking in before making inane comments
Sorry bro but I don't subscribe to the echo chamber you crave to live in. I've been here for years too which indeed you would know if you searched for my name in it. GFY
mrbenis: @LocalOrk:
LocalOrk: I doubt GW give a toss about garage gaming, frankly. It
doesn't generate as much profits as "oh, I NEED to buy 2-3k army of
newest XXX to kick ass in tournament".
I would counter that with noone except stelek knows who actually among the customer base buys the most models. GW may bank on newbies with more cash than sense but since you don't get surveyed at the counter I have a hard time believing that GW itself actively knows where most of its money comes from. Maybe I'm wrong but if GW doesn't take a census of its consumer base then where are they pulling their numbers from? If GW really did care about their game being taken seriously in tournaments... wouldn't that compel them to host some?
I would counter that with noone except stelek knows who actually among the customer base buys the most models. GW may bank on newbies with more cash than sense but since you don't get surveyed at the counter I have a hard time believing that GW itself actively knows where most of its money comes from. Maybe I'm wrong but if GW doesn't take a census of its consumer base then where are they pulling their numbers from? If GW really did care about their game being taken seriously in tournaments... wouldn't that compel them to host some?
mrbenis: 'If GW really did care about their game being taken seriously in tournaments... wouldn't that compel them to host some?'
By which I meant with regards to using tournament performance as a yard stick to sell models against. They could simply be letting the players do the work here for them but things like CompCounter and big youtube channels shitting on their rules day in-day out can't be doing them any favours on that front so, no, I don't find any merit in the suggestion that tournaments are vessel by which sales are delivered except among those 1% of people who actually attend them.
By which I meant with regards to using tournament performance as a yard stick to sell models against. They could simply be letting the players do the work here for them but things like CompCounter and big youtube channels shitting on their rules day in-day out can't be doing them any favours on that front so, no, I don't find any merit in the suggestion that tournaments are vessel by which sales are delivered except among those 1% of people who actually attend them.
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2014/07/games-workshops-annual-flub-2014/
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2014/01/open-letter-to-the-community/
While I don't pay a lot of attention to what happens outside of Australia the general consensus is following trend and we can see that over all there are less unique individuals by % in my LGS each time I go in (roughly once a month). Everyone's a regular only by virtue of there being noone new.
GW desperately NEEDS another Dawn Of War to get people hyped again. Their codexes are nice but massively overpriced. Their game is still most commonly played on a 6x4 table but this is just too small for an average size army. The rulebook itself doesn't encourage breaking the mould (despite saying it itself imposes no limitations on physical setting) and the stores only provide 1 experience. There's no excitement left in 40k because the animal is changing but the scenery is the same. It's easy to switch off and not even pay attention to something new.
One final point is the 18,000 visitors quote from one of the articles. Yes. Before other forms of home entertainment really took off. PC gaming only really became a big thing in 1997 but consoles were around for much longer and playing on consoles is a lot cheaper than GW product in a pound-for-pound kind of way.
elotar: You know, that the rules are shit, but you are still buying them for a hundreds of dollars and you think GW is idiot in this story?
LocalOrk: I mean, how else You sell sprue worth (in plastic) of infantry for 3 times as much, other than with hollow robot shell?
randumbwon: hot
damn mr. dumbass, this isn't politics, throwing around echo chamber
just makes you look like a tool. but you say you've been here for years
so obviously the game is better off now than it was 6 years ago
mrbenis: @randumbwon
Your trollfu is weak.I think the community has more to answer for than
GW does. Also echo chambers have nothing to do with politics. If I could
block on this thing I would because you spout nothing but hate and
garbage.
Witness here the delusional nature of some of its members. They don't come here for genuine discussion, they come here to vent internalised issues and seek positive reinforcement from other equally bitter posters. I like to break that mould where I can because people like these should never be permitted to be the sole point of reference for online opinion pieces.
If you're like me and ever done "pick up" purchases you can sort of vicariously drink in the emotional baggage every model carries, especially the ones assembled and painted by late-teens and perfectly conforming to the 'studio paint job' that the company wants you to comply with. Because originality is dead in 40k and everything you do is just advertising for the game.
And I stand by that sentiment. Originality in 40k is dead. The theme and iconography of the game is 25 years old, most of it is unchanged. In adding new armies the overwhelming negativity of its jaded and neglected customer base bubbles up to the surface with people complaining in private commodes about how expensive everything new is, how it doesn't cater to their desired direction for the game and how it negatively impacts their ability to play or even enjoy the game (and from the looks of things some of them have in fact NOT been playing for years) and that the company finally producing new models for a range people have been desperately wanting for years is met with cynicism and doubt. Yes the models are expensive - but if you're complaining about prices in a game with toy soldiers you have some seriously messed up priorities. Video gaming is far worse, Battlefield 4 famously had one edition of it selling for $120 and that included vapourware shit like the nebulous term "DLC", paying up front for a product sight unseen and not even know what the fuck that DLC will even be (there's no guarantee you won't get strictly cosmetic horse armour tier garbage or even worse: gamebreaking exclusive items for multiplayer that explicitly punishes people who don't blindly invest in pre-orders).
I do tend to use a lot of strong language in my communications with the other human beings on the internet but this is because of their desensitivity to anything that doesn't offend them. Engaging in a higher level of dialogue is impossible with some people because they're incapable of distinguishing between critical commentary and insults. See the above black text.
Originality and promoting personal flourishes in the interpretations of 40k's universe and artistic direction is one of the pillars that made GWs original game so popular. Allowing and encouraging everyone to introduce their unique touches to each unit design is what essentially helps to distinguish their product from more interactive media like video games because video games inherently cannot allow very much deviation from the lead designers doctrine. Case in point: when I was last in a GW store to buy my solitaire model, I was encouraged to look at and use the painting scheme that the UK studio used for its model. This happened to be a completely independant book from the codex itself and covered things like officially endorsed colour schemes and markings and designs. The distaste for this product didn't hit me fully until I got home however because I wasn't quite clicking with the idea that GW either has so little faith in the general customers imagination or that they pessimistically don't want their customers to diverge from their artistic direction for "reasons". The optimist might just point out that they want to provide some inspiration for you, but I'd say thats ridiculous when talking about an 80 page book you no doubt have to buy for some seriously big $$$. Everything about modern GW seems to centre around controlling their IP and eroding any sense of artistic adventure within their community because they've openly stated that they feel their interpretation of the universe is the only valid one, nevermind the way that this state fluxes when they have a change of staff.
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